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	<title>Comments on: A Tale of two Budgetable competitors</title>
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	<link>http://www.allenpike.com/2010/a-tale-of-two-budgetable-competitors/</link>
	<description>Allen Pike on gidgets and gazmos.</description>
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		<title>By: Reeder</title>
		<link>http://www.allenpike.com/2010/a-tale-of-two-budgetable-competitors/comment-page-1/#comment-4285</link>
		<dc:creator>Reeder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antipode.ca/?p=1778#comment-4285</guid>
		<description>I surely hope someday a company comes and buys me out, wont take much to be honest, but any type of venture angel takeover, its my pleasure to make happen! Hey dreams are what we await to happen, also hope all goes well for you Allen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I surely hope someday a company comes and buys me out, wont take much to be honest, but any type of venture angel takeover, its my pleasure to make happen! Hey dreams are what we await to happen, also hope all goes well for you Allen</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.allenpike.com/2010/a-tale-of-two-budgetable-competitors/comment-page-1/#comment-4284</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antipode.ca/?p=1778#comment-4284</guid>
		<description>There might be a market in the OCD types too, I know several people who spend a lot of time organizing their finances. Offering a scale where casual is free, and OCD + semi pro are charged could work, especially if you can use the paid accounts to influence the free accounts.  Semi-pro includes a lot of home businesses, professionals, and people who are just keen to stretch their monthly budgets. Anywhere there is money to be saved, there is a place to make the case for charging people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There might be a market in the OCD types too, I know several people who spend a lot of time organizing their finances. Offering a scale where casual is free, and OCD + semi pro are charged could work, especially if you can use the paid accounts to influence the free accounts.  Semi-pro includes a lot of home businesses, professionals, and people who are just keen to stretch their monthly budgets. Anywhere there is money to be saved, there is a place to make the case for charging people.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.allenpike.com/2010/a-tale-of-two-budgetable-competitors/comment-page-1/#comment-4283</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antipode.ca/?p=1778#comment-4283</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re absolutely right that Flickr and Basecamp are good models for a profitable web app. Both of them, however, target prosumers and small businesses. Another example is Meetup, which sucks but a lot of people pay for. People will pay for web apps for their hobbies and side businesses and small businesses.

So, how does that translate into potential success for personal finance? It means taking on small business and organization accounting. It&#039;s quite possible you could drive paying prosumers and business to an accounting site by also having a good personal finance tool, but that&#039;s not what Mint, Wesabe, or Budgetable were doing. Maybe it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right that Flickr and Basecamp are good models for a profitable web app. Both of them, however, target prosumers and small businesses. Another example is Meetup, which sucks but a lot of people pay for. People will pay for web apps for their hobbies and side businesses and small businesses.</p>
<p>So, how does that translate into potential success for personal finance? It means taking on small business and organization accounting. It&#8217;s quite possible you could drive paying prosumers and business to an accounting site by also having a good personal finance tool, but that&#8217;s not what Mint, Wesabe, or Budgetable were doing. Maybe it should be.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.allenpike.com/2010/a-tale-of-two-budgetable-competitors/comment-page-1/#comment-4282</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antipode.ca/?p=1778#comment-4282</guid>
		<description>Or, someone will find a way to cast it so that you&#039;d be crazy not to pay. They might find a better way to shape the product, or just a better argument for paying.

It&#039;s the Flickr argument: they curate something different (or did at least) than the competitors. It&#039;s not like Photobucket, MySpace, Twitpic, or Facebook.  Even hack photographers are willing to pay for Flickr. Even people who wish they were hack photographers pay for it. Why? Smart limits, great inspiration (in interestingness), the &quot;Pro&quot; badge, and something that solves the problem pretty well.

It&#039;s also the Basecamp argument, where they charge for a very basic version of things that existed before. Low free limits, good customer service, and a very functional thing. They really sell it, though, and have created a zealous following where I would have never imagined one existing.

I&#039;m more surprised at the clever ways companies succeed, rather than how they fail.  The failures are mostly in ignoring the obvious, like &quot;why can&#039;t we charge for this?&quot;, or &quot;wow, look at our burn rate.&quot;

I don&#039;t think that consumers insist on things being free, they just resist paying for things that don&#039;t seem worth paying for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, someone will find a way to cast it so that you&#8217;d be crazy not to pay. They might find a better way to shape the product, or just a better argument for paying.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the Flickr argument: they curate something different (or did at least) than the competitors. It&#8217;s not like Photobucket, MySpace, Twitpic, or Facebook.  Even hack photographers are willing to pay for Flickr. Even people who wish they were hack photographers pay for it. Why? Smart limits, great inspiration (in interestingness), the &#8220;Pro&#8221; badge, and something that solves the problem pretty well.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also the Basecamp argument, where they charge for a very basic version of things that existed before. Low free limits, good customer service, and a very functional thing. They really sell it, though, and have created a zealous following where I would have never imagined one existing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more surprised at the clever ways companies succeed, rather than how they fail.  The failures are mostly in ignoring the obvious, like &#8220;why can&#8217;t we charge for this?&#8221;, or &#8220;wow, look at our burn rate.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that consumers insist on things being free, they just resist paying for things that don&#8217;t seem worth paying for.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.allenpike.com/2010/a-tale-of-two-budgetable-competitors/comment-page-1/#comment-4281</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antipode.ca/?p=1778#comment-4281</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right that there are lots of reasons Wesabe could have failed. I&#039;m suspicious, though, that not building something that people want to pay for was the problem. For virtually all consumer-oriented web products, customers aren&#039;t willing to pull out a credit card. Mint has been owned by Quicken for almost a year, and is still free. Consumers just don&#039;t perceive web sites as being worth money.

It was easy for Wesabe to fail by not even trying, but I expect that they discovered that people weren&#039;t willing to pay, especially given the existence of Mint, prompting their pivot to targeting banks. The opportunity to try charging people in this space probably won&#039;t come again until Mint starts to rot on Intuit&#039;s watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right that there are lots of reasons Wesabe could have failed. I&#8217;m suspicious, though, that not building something that people want to pay for was the problem. For virtually all consumer-oriented web products, customers aren&#8217;t willing to pull out a credit card. Mint has been owned by Quicken for almost a year, and is still free. Consumers just don&#8217;t perceive web sites as being worth money.</p>
<p>It was easy for Wesabe to fail by not even trying, but I expect that they discovered that people weren&#8217;t willing to pay, especially given the existence of Mint, prompting their pivot to targeting banks. The opportunity to try charging people in this space probably won&#8217;t come again until Mint starts to rot on Intuit&#8217;s watch.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.allenpike.com/2010/a-tale-of-two-budgetable-competitors/comment-page-1/#comment-4280</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antipode.ca/?p=1778#comment-4280</guid>
		<description>The success and path of another company does not equate to your own potential success, nor are the apparent reasons terribly valuable. They are interesting data points, to be sure, but there is not much to be found on the surface of their stories. 

I think you have to be careful about what you learn from the paths of other businesses. There is inspiration to find and warnings to heed, but most often the real issues are in the brain-dead obvious things, like early profit, clever margin optimization, building something that people want to pay for, and working hard to make people pay (and continue) paying. Quality, service, and cost control.

Restaurants are a similar beast, and are a bit easier to understand. Why do most restaurants fail? It&#039;s the simple things like failing to use real, fresh food, preparing it well, managing costs poorly, or failing to serve people well. Location, menu size, and even cost are far less of a problem when incredible food and great service are available.  Most restaurants fail on quality and quality control, failing to turn enough tables or to control food and staff costs, which force the business into a corner where they&#039;re even less able to deliver quality.

Wesabe was forced into a corner by failing their startup game. They waited too long to charge people, and then tried to scramble to find anyone to pay. Maybe they didn&#039;t have something people would pay for, but that&#039;s on them. I suspect that people would pay for something that solved the problem well, not charging people hints at either a product problem, or a confidence and planning problem. They also failed to control operational costs, which these days seems less forgivable. 

This appears to be a common problem of funded software: not enough obsession over useful, profitable, and operationally-sane products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The success and path of another company does not equate to your own potential success, nor are the apparent reasons terribly valuable. They are interesting data points, to be sure, but there is not much to be found on the surface of their stories. </p>
<p>I think you have to be careful about what you learn from the paths of other businesses. There is inspiration to find and warnings to heed, but most often the real issues are in the brain-dead obvious things, like early profit, clever margin optimization, building something that people want to pay for, and working hard to make people pay (and continue) paying. Quality, service, and cost control.</p>
<p>Restaurants are a similar beast, and are a bit easier to understand. Why do most restaurants fail? It&#8217;s the simple things like failing to use real, fresh food, preparing it well, managing costs poorly, or failing to serve people well. Location, menu size, and even cost are far less of a problem when incredible food and great service are available.  Most restaurants fail on quality and quality control, failing to turn enough tables or to control food and staff costs, which force the business into a corner where they&#8217;re even less able to deliver quality.</p>
<p>Wesabe was forced into a corner by failing their startup game. They waited too long to charge people, and then tried to scramble to find anyone to pay. Maybe they didn&#8217;t have something people would pay for, but that&#8217;s on them. I suspect that people would pay for something that solved the problem well, not charging people hints at either a product problem, or a confidence and planning problem. They also failed to control operational costs, which these days seems less forgivable. </p>
<p>This appears to be a common problem of funded software: not enough obsession over useful, profitable, and operationally-sane products.</p>
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